Oh, Those Painful Rejections...

Post by **kailhofer** » May 10, 2005, 06:00:50 PM

First off, let me start by saying that if you've got a "hard" SF story languishing on your hard drive, take advantage of the new e-sub reading periods at Interzone during May, August, & next January. That way at least you can save on international postage before having your ego blistered. Do it now. http://www.ttapress.com/IZguides.html I used to think a badly photocopied, quarter-sheet, "your story stinks" form rejection slip was the worst. After all, these people didn't care enough to do anything more than scrawl your title on the top. Surely, anyone's story deserved more. Take it from me: a personal, "your story is good, but not good enough" hurts worse. As many of you know, I had a story that took tenth in a Writer's of the Future Contest (Yeah, that one I keep bragging about). That was good enough for an Honorable Mention certificate that looks smart on my wall, and a review from the judge. In that, she stated that there were only 2 things that kept if from the final round. I thought, OK. I fix those 2 things, someone should buy it. I fished around, trying to find a pro zine who hadn't already said no. There weren't many, and I tried some over again. Interzone decided to try e-subs, and their first line of defense/reader, Jetse de Vries, posts a lot of helpful updates on their discussion board. I honestly felt I had a chance. The rejection came from this afternoon. In it, I was told: While this was an entertaining story about a resourceful space tug captain and his young crew member who outwitted a secret military mission, it didn't win me over. I knew from this that Jetse had actually finished reading the whole piece, which was better than I had done with JJA, first reader at F&SF. The main reason given was that it had a "Golden Age SF" feel to it, instead of a more "modern sensibility": We'll only take this type of SF if it's really brilliant, and "Pop Fly", while it certainly has merit, is just not that good. I don't want to take anything away from Interzone. It's a good, respected mag, a SFWA-approved market. However, it sure would have been nice to know what a "Golden Age SF feel" meant, as well as what "modern sensibilities" were. I know the style of the thing wasn't classic--it was a rotating first-person perspective through five characters (and I sure don't have any of those in the anthologies on my shelves). They went on to recommend Analog (they said no years ago) and Absolute Magnitude (they won't take first-person). Man, what do you have to do to break through into the pros?! The form slip was easier to take. Get that, you know your barking up the wrong tree & try something else. Get this... and you know you're close, but no cigar. Still on the bubble and not going to the show, even with the best I've got. 21 years and counting, now. Oh, and the "it's just not that good" stings, too. Nate P.S. All venting aside--if you've got a story you can try at Interzone, go for it. Opportunities like this to sell to a pro foreign market, without cost, are unheard of.

Post by **kailhofer** » May 11, 2005, 06:19:52 PM

Nate, its their loss. There isn't a damn thing wrong with your story. It just doesn't fit that reader's idea of the zine's needs. Keep plugging away with it, and sooner or later you'll find the right home for it.
Dan

Thanks. That helps. Nate

Post by **kailhofer** » May 11, 2005, 08:26:39 PM

As has been cussed and discussed in Lettercol before, most of us have agreed that most of the stories in the prozines are just not that great, and that many of the stories in Aphelion are much better.

But Nate, if you’re looking for the “prestige,” or whatever, of being published in a prozine, my only advice is to keep your stories circulating. Write and submit, write and submit. Sooner or later an editor or editor's reader may like what they see.

I wholeheartedly agree that Aphelion has better fiction than many pro zines. It is a pleasure to be a part of the community here, and Don's way really would be the best way. What do I want? Affirmation, mostly. Affirmation that my dreams are, in fact, reachable. I want my last name on the spine of novels before it vanishes from this earth--and not from a vanity press, either. That was the future I promised my teenage self those many years ago. (My son & my nephew will be the last chances to carry on the family name, and maybe if it was on a book, it might increase the chance that history will remember we existed.) Aphelion is great. You can learn a lot here. But the exposure doesn't go as far as I hoped it would--heck, sometimes you just can't tell if more than a dozen people read your story. If you want to win over agents and publishers, they have to see your name, and that kind of leaves the pro zine route. Making it big with novels is even less easy. I tried that first, and stacked up a depressingly tall stack of unpublished manuscript pages before I turned to shorts as a way of getting exposure. (As a bonus, I learned a hell of a lot more about characterization & plot development from shorts that I didn't get from novels--you have to paint a better picture on a smaller canvas if you want anyone to look.) But if you do want to hit it big with a novel, unless you take the ebook path, I'm afraid you'll probably need some pro zine credits first. Does anyone know of anybody who actually hit it big starting as an ebook? Nate

Post by **kailhofer** » May 11, 2005, 08:44:41 PM

Once you get your balance back after the rejection, once you've emerged from the funk of self-doubt, you just keep writing.

What else're you gonna do, Nate?

I dunno. Origami? I could rent myself out as a paperweight... Hmm... Seems I need some more skills.

Me? I write out of spite. No one's going to make me stop. I may never publish, but I got stories to tell (too many names and all) and there's nothing quite like turning a good phrase.

I'm glad that you've got something that works for you, but for me, it seems to take a little longer each time to bounce back... Getting to be kind of a while, now. I was in a funk long before I got this one. Nate

Post by **kailhofer** » May 14, 2005, 03:51:18 PM

Well, I got my first BFOD (that's "Blue Form of Death," for those who don't know) from Realms of Fantasy today. I was hoping for a YFOP (Yellow Form of Promise). The Blue Form can be read as "Hated it!" and the Yellow as "You've got promise. Send us something else." That was the first time I wrote a story deliberately targeted at a first reader, in this case, Carina Gonzalez. I figured if I can’t make it past the first line of defense, I won’t ever be seen by those at the top. I read everything I could find on what she liked (which was a lot), and angled everything toward grabbing her fancy. Of course, as soon as I submitted, Ralan announced ROF was overbooked and harder to get into. Still, I was hopeful. I waited, checking the online slush database every week. Darned if Carina didn't up and quit right before my batch! ARRRGH! The new guy is Douglas Cohen. Lord only knows what he likes, especially since it sounds like the editor doesn't want the online slush list kept up... Certainly not what I wrote, hence the BFOD. So, for those watching markets, big changes over at Realms of Fantasy. Nate

Post by **kailhofer** » May 14, 2005, 11:00:59 PM

I guess in a sick way, that's kinda funny. I mean really, you gotta wipe the tears and laugh. [snip]

Nate, keep on writing.

My advice to you: drink heavily.

Dan E.

I'm having a vanilla Chai Latte right now. (Who knew this junk my wife drinks would actually taste good?) :) Honestly, I did all the drinking I wanted to do back in college, and I really just didn't feel that bad over this one. Frustrated, to be sure, but not so down in the dumps, like earlier. I guess it proves that you have to write the best story you can, and not a story just for a specific editor or reader. My story is fixable. (Maybe not sellable, but fixable to where its a good story.) Been a hell of a week, though. All that silence I'm hearing from The Great And Powerful Robert_M. probably doesn't bode well for this next issue either... (You'd almost think I keep picking on the editor who says yes or no to my stories. ;)) Nate "Ignore that man behind the curtains!"--The Wizard of Oz

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » May 15, 2005, 12:30:14 AM

...All that silence I'm hearing from The Great And Powerful Robert_M. probably doesn't bode well for this next issue either... (You'd almost think I keep picking on the editor who says yes or no to my stories. ;))

Nate

"Ignore that man behind the curtains!"--The Wizard of Oz

If it makes you feel any better, I 'finalized' the selection of stories for the May issue on Monday night, since Dan had said that he wanted things ready by Tuesday if possible. Your story ('Sarah') was the very next one in the review queue. (Oddly enough, we still seem to be Doing the Time Warp -- stuck in April , which is somewhere near Lodi ...) I have read 'Another Sarah', and thought it was sick, twisted, and completely lacking in any character development arc. In other words, I liked it, and it will almost certainly be included in the June Aphelion. Unless we end up with the May Aphelion going online in June, in which case ... Robert M.

Post by **Robert_Moriyama** » May 15, 2005, 12:33:06 AM

...Sheesh! No appreciation of the classics these days. These kids, you raise them up, you buy them books, you send them to college... And they come out educated instead of cultured. Where did we go wrong?
LOL!
Dan

Don't be ridiculous, Dan. They're cultured all right. You can't eat that much all-natural yogurt without being cultured. (And who was it that said 'You can lead a horticulture but you cannot make her think'?) (Womyn, send your notes of protest to onlykidding@getalife.com.) Robert M.

Post by **kailhofer** » May 15, 2005, 08:40:54 PM

Don makes a killer point that, for me, basically boils down to this: It would be great to bypass the markets and editors that have overrationalized the editorial process and get our material into the hands of the readership. I have a feeling "unsaleable" material would be enjoyed by a lot of people.

Aphelion seems to be as close to this kind of scenario as I've seen even though a lot of critiques address issues of saleability (many of mine included).

I'm behind those sentiments 100%. We have a common goal--we want people to read our stuff. We also hate jumping through hoops, editors who squash our dreams, and that many readers don't get to see what we contend is good, entertaining fiction. I'd think we'd all agree Aphelion is already a place where great fiction can be read, without us jumping through silly hoops. Here we can get published. Here we can put up entertaining tales without being rejected because the story's style is too "Golden Age of SF", or any other such nonsense. I say, if it is entertaining, it's worth publishing, and I think Dan would agree. Aphelion is already the right place for the kinds of fiction we write. Now, I hope I'm not stepping on any toes of the senior staff, but is there a way to bring that readership we all want here, as well? There's never any circulation numbers beyond "thousands," and less than a dozen people give any feedback on any particular story. That response is not something we can leverage to increase our potential sales. There's no pay here, but if we could reach enough readers to build a quantifiable readership/brand loyalty, that would attract the attention of publishers. For writers, a "free" story at Aphelion would be an investment in our own future, and earn us a truly rare thing: a feeling of success in this rotten industry. For readers, it's all good news: no fees, no ads... just damn good fiction. Dan and the other editors, as well as every author who came before us, have built this "field of dreams" for us to play on. Is there a way to get more people to come to it? Nate

starman · Post by **starman** » May 15, 2005, 10:12:57 PM

Aphelion is the best of the new publishing- a place not driven by 'market standards' and 'bottom line' economics, but a fourm where Dan and others can openly publish other people's written art. What a concept! Good writing for everyone to read...free. Seems to me that's what it's all about. If the invention of moveable type was the first great revolution in publishing, the internet is the second; and places like Aphelion are at the vanguard. As for painful rejections, try getting anything published in Canada. My first book was taken on by Stonegarden ( in California), and since then my brethern up here have treated my like a traitor, refusing and discouraging any and all attempts to gain some recogniton in the Frozen North. ( I even applied to several Canuck agents and they all refused to even look at The Apple Lady, so I went Stateside again and got two hopeful responses, one from San Fran and one bite from New York. Oh, and most of the US agents at least responded to my queries. There's a reason Jim Carey, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Micheal J Fox, and Allanis Morrisette live in the States. BTW: How hard is it to get a green card? Rob

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