Re: Deafening silence ...

[doc]

Let me try a different tactic.

Why do you keep trying to turn Aphelion into a professional product? It's a fan site. It's run by amatuers who love what they do, and do it for the joy of seeing it happen.

The minute it becomes work, I quit. And I expect the others will too.

This isn't to say I don't value and appreciate the feedback. I'm not dismissing the suggestions out of hand. But I think we have very different ideas about what Aphelion is and ought to be, and that makes this a very frustrating conversation for both of us.

[Robert_Moriyama]

... This is not to say that we don't aspire to achieve professional QUALITY in terms of the content we present -- stories, novellas, serials, poetry and filk lyrics. In fact, the success rate of authors who have been tempered in the fires of Usual Suspects deconstruction has been pretty good.

Now, those Aphelion authors who HAVE managed to make at least some money from their writing tend to be hard-working types who submit work all over the web and print markets, not just to Aphelion. But I still like to think that this is a place where a writer can get more than "this didn't work for me", or "We regret that your submission does not meet our current needs" -- something that falls between showing your stories to your friends (who all praise it -- at least to your face) and participating in a no-holds-barred, writer-eat-writer workshop.

Nonetheless, as Rob says, we ain't trying to produce something that will compete with a commercial enterprise in terms of punctuality, web page bells and whistles, etc.

But (he whined) it sure would be nice to know that we (and the brave souls who submit their work -- sometimes including the Mafiosi themselves) aren't posting content that nobody actually reads. Hit counts are nice, but more specific feedback is nicer. Not that professional publications necessarily garner much more meaningful feedback than we do.

Robert M.

[kailhofer]

Let me try a different tactic.

Why do you keep trying to turn Aphelion into a professional product?  It's a fan site.  It's run by amatuers who love what they do, and do it for the joy of seeing it happen.

I think we should start by trying to agree on some terminology. To me, Aphelion is already a product, even though it is free. It’s produced by writers and editors to be consumed (read) by an audience. Resources are consumed--time, effort, web hosting fees, etc.--and a creative piece is produced (ergo “product”.) Editors are “paid” in satisfaction. Writers are “paid” in satisfaction, exposure, and (if they’re lucky) in feedback in the lettercol, which helps them improve and become more saleable. By this line of reasoning, we’re all already working. It’s work you enjoy, so you may not consider it a job, but it is a kind of work.

As for professional or not, Aphelion is waaaay ahead of the curve for quality in free zines. So much so, I’d argue its content is already as good as many pro zines. However, where I work, today alone, 4 writers, 2 editors and 3 very cranky layout people produced 50 pages of newspapers (which was handed over to my side of the building, were we preflighted, imaged, plated,.printed, sorted, addressed, packaged and delivered those papers along with two more papers from other customers--plus two more magazine covers and assorted job printing). No offense meant, but that Aphelion is an amateur operation is clearly evident.

I don’t want Aphelion to a pro zine, unless it needs to be. I'd like it to achieve 2 goals:  1) be read by significantly more people, and 2) attract a bigger community to participate the lettercol. The first reason is from pure selfishness. When I next submit a story, I’d like it to be read by more than .000005% of the internet. (For what it’s worth, that’s an actual traffic number from Alexa.com. That’s the only source I know for traffic info.)

If reader numbers are down (and I don’t know that for a fact, but it seems that way), how do you know if readers like what is being produced? Satisfaction for you in seeing the zine up is well and good, but as a writer, I want to know someone will read it. Robert’s comment tells me I’m not the only one. How much satisfaction can there be if an editor toils to create a product that isn’t read by very many? A love of good fiction can only go so far.

If readers need more flash, bells, whistles, or publication on a regular schedule to entice readers, then I think that is what ought to be done. If they don’t, then don’t change any of that. If it takes MySpace, or whatever, then I think that’s what ought to be done. I don’t honestly think something like that will be all that much work, but bottom line, if Aphelion is not read, then writers are not being “paid” their exposure as they’re promised in the submission guidelines (at least, not paid very well).

My second goal is to increase participation in the lettercol. Feedback is like gold on anybody’s story, even if it’s one of my sour reviews. However, I say the community made in the lettercol is what keeps Usual Suspects usual. I hang out and aggravate folks (especially Robert  ;))because I like it there. It’s a community. I feel that if that community wasn’t there, Usual Suspects would be far less likely to submit stories to the zine.

I like it to be a bigger community, however. More voices makes for more interesting conversations to pick and choose from. Also, it’s a lot easier to get reviews for stories if there are more inmates, er, commentators. If the lettercol community grows, everybody wins. More stories to the zine, more reviews, more conversation… more community.

If it takes interactive contests, more articles or discussions on how to improve your, or whatever, then that’s what I think should be done.


So… that’s what I think Aphelion is and ought to be. Is there room enough in your definition for both of us to agree?

Nate

[doc]

I think the difference, Nate, is that you necessarily see things through the lens of what you do.

Aphelion is a fanzine. If you didn't come out of that culture, what it means for Aphelion to be a fanzine is hard to explain. But that's the context *I* come out of.

We tend to agree on general goals. I'd like more people reading, and more importantly, I'd like more people to contribute and participate, whether it's by writing a story, making a comment, drawing some art, or whatever. I've been building online communities for over 15 years. It's just one of the things that I do, and Aphelion is just one of them.

To that end, I think we (meaning the Editorial Mafia) need to focus on 2 important goals:

1) Make the zine easier to read. (that will largely be my job)

2) Make the zine come out on time.

The second of these is *crucial*. I'm pretty sure that the irregularity of the last 12 months is a huge part of why participation is down. And it's fixable, but it'll take time to correct the course.

Having fessed up to that, let's take another step back and take a look at what YOU can do to better the community. We're all part of this, and each of us can make a positive contribution. Aphelion has never done an actual marketing campaign. We are what we are soley and completely by word of mouth. (Incidently, Aphelion is hit #2 on google under the terms "Science Fiction Webzine") Who do you know that would be interested? How many of you have a log that is read by more than your immediate family and the cat? Do you participate in mailing lists about SF&F? If so, do you have a link to Aphelion in your .sig file?

There's been an awful lot of talk in this thread about what Aphelion can do. But ask not what your webzine can do for you. Ask what you can do for your webzine. :)

After all, I think we're *all* bozos on this bus.

[kailhofer]

I think the difference, Nate, is that you necessarily see things through the lens of what you do.

Aphelion is a fanzine. If you didn't come out of that culture, what it means for Aphelion to be a fanzine is hard to explain. But that's the context *I* come out of.

True enough, I suppose. I'm a 3rd generation printer and newspaperman. (Mostly just a printer now, but I set up our mailing department, too.) When I hear something about readership, I naturally think the word 'circulation' since I've been a circulation manager in the past. Online or on paper, it's all just circulation to me.

We tend to agree on general goals. I'd like more people reading, and more importantly, I'd like more people to contribute and participate, whether it's by writing a story, making a comment, drawing some art, or whatever. I've been building online communities for over 15 years. It's just one of the things that I do, and Aphelion is just one of them.

To that end, I think we (meaning the Editorial Mafia) need to focus on 2 important goals:

1) Make the zine easier to read. (that will largely be my job)

2) Make the zine come out on time.

The second of these is *crucial*. I'm pretty sure that the irregularity of the last 12 months is a huge part of why participation is down. And it's fixable, but it'll take time to correct the course.

I don't think either of those things would hurt, although "easier to read" could mean a lot of different things to different people. Once again, though, I caution you not to change things without hard evidence that is what readers want.

Readers are funny sometimes. What you as a provider of a service think they want and what they actually want can be the exact opposite. So, please don't pull a New Coke. Find out what readers want, first.

Having fessed up to that, let's take another step back and take a look at what YOU can do to better the community. We're all part of this, and each of us can make a positive contribution. Aphelion has never done an actual marketing campaign. We are what we are soley and completely by word of mouth. (Incidently, Aphelion is hit #2 on google under the terms "Science Fiction Webzine") Who do you know that would be interested? How many of you have a log that is read by more than your immediate family and the cat? Do you participate in mailing lists about SF&F? If so, do you have a link to Aphelion in your .sig file?

There's been an awful lot of talk in this thread about what Aphelion can do. But ask not what your webzine can do for you. Ask what you can do for your webzine. :)

After all, I think we're *all* bozos on this bus.

Somewhere in there I think YOU became plural, as in all of us Suspects (at least I hope). I think a formal marketing plan would be a very good idea. Gareth suggested a lot of things, and is the logical person to head up such things, since he's the professional marketer, if he's willing. But before such a plan is made, there should be a ruling on what is possible. Is his RSS idea possible with how the zine and lettercol work? Can there be a link directly to a new message post at the bottom of stories? (User profiles would have to be set to automatically log in??) What about banner ads or subscriber-only content? I assume those are unacceptable? Can the user notification emails be set up again (but the RSS thing may render that moot)?

I like the idea of a separate Writing Tips folder. I'd even volunteer to post a topic each month about what makes a story, how to hook readers in 200 words, characterization, etc. Those things interest me, anyway, and are a prominent part of my reviews. It would be even cooler if such things could be hyped/linked from the index page.

I looked at MySpace for the first time this afternoon, and was clearly not in my element. I hardly understood any of it. Likewise, I don't understand the appeal of blogging. So, if there's anyone out there into that, speak up, please. I did wonder, however, if something like that could be a place to host an audio story each month, and then link it back to here (and thus get around the bandwith limit). Maybe one new audio story/podcast each month, which is also one of the stories for that month, or something like that? Heck, I'd even volunteer to be a voice/reader, although all I've got is what is built in to my Mac. The whole podcast fiction thing is really fascinating to me. Audiobook-style short fiction that people listen to on their ipods is surprisingly popular.

When it comes to interviewing writers, how were the previous interviews set up? I'm not volunteering for that one.

Once again, I'll volunteer to be the idea person/moderator for a lettercol-based flash fiction contest each month to help build community through parallel marketing. ::)


Anyhow, just ideas.

Nate

[doc]

I don't think either of those things would hurt, although "easier to read" could mean a lot of different things to different people. Once again, though, I caution you not to change things without hard evidence that is what readers want.

Readers are funny sometimes. What you as a provider of a service think they want and what they actually want can be the exact opposite. So, please don't pull a New Coke. Find out what readers want, first.

It's all just bits and bytes, so nothing we do is necessarily permanent. That said, our web design is seriously antique at this point, and I think there's a lot we could do that would make it easier to read and navigate, without losing any of its charm.

Bear in mind that I'm pretty "old school" when it comes to web design. There's never going to be any requirement for flash or javascript while I'm in charge. (There are a few javascript elements in the page, but they're not essential for reading or navigating.

Having fessed up to that, let's take another step back and take a look at what YOU can do to better the community. We're all part of this, and each of us can make a positive contribution. Aphelion has never done an actual marketing campaign. We are what we are soley and completely by word of mouth. (Incidently, Aphelion is hit #2 on google under the terms "Science Fiction Webzine") Who do you know that would be interested? How many of you have a log that is read by more than your immediate family and the cat? Do you participate in mailing lists about SF&F? If so, do you have a link to Aphelion in your .sig file?

There's been an awful lot of talk in this thread about what Aphelion can do. But ask not what your webzine can do for you. Ask what you can do for your webzine. :)

After all, I think we're *all* bozos on this bus.

Somewhere in there I think YOU became plural, as in all of us Suspects (at least I hope). I think a formal marketing plan would be a very good idea. Gareth suggested a lot of things, and is the logical person to head up such things, since he's the professional marketer, if he's willing. But before such a plan is made, there should be a ruling on what is possible. Is his RSS idea possible with how the zine and lettercol work? Can there be a link directly to a new message post at the bottom of stories? (User profiles would have to be set to automatically log in??) What about banner ads or subscriber-only content? I assume those are unacceptable? Can the user notification emails be set up again (but the RSS thing may render that moot)?

I wasn't getting the sense of a plural You. It's definitely something I think we all have to contribute to, though. At least, all of us who care about the health and future of the zine.

Is RSS *possible*? Sure. Most things are possible, with enough time and effort. I'm not convinced it's what I want to do, though. It doesn't fit the model of what I think we want to do.

Banner ads and subscriber only content is a non-starter. Not going to happen here.

I'm not sure that getting a direct login from the story to the board is really feasible with this software, but we can certainly do our part to make it a more prominent link from the story itself.

I like the idea of a separate Writing Tips folder. I'd even volunteer to post a topic each month about what makes a story, how to hook readers in 200 words, characterization, etc. Those things interest me, anyway, and are a prominent part of my reviews. It would be even cooler if such things could be hyped/linked from the index page.

Sounds like a great idea, and well within the scope of what we're doing. I'll set up a Writers Workshop folder on the lettercol and people can start posting stuff. (I've occasionally dropped links to interesting tips I've come across in the Administrivia folder, but it makes sense to separate it out.)

I looked at MySpace for the first time this afternoon, and was clearly not in my element. I hardly understood any of it. Likewise, I don't understand the appeal of blogging. So, if there's anyone out there into that, speak up, please.

My blog is entirely for personal matters. I'm not really sure that blogging is useful in the context of what we're trying to build here. Now, if you HAVE a personal blog, directing people this way is a good and useful thing, but you don't just go out and START a blog and expect it to generate stuff for you. (Well, you can, but it takes time and effort. Long before the word "blog" existed, we started a webzine instead.)

I did wonder, however, if something like that could be a place to host an audio story each month, and then link it back to here (and thus get around the bandwith limit). Maybe one new audio story/podcast each month, which is also one of the stories for that month, or something like that? Heck, I'd even volunteer to be a voice/reader, although all I've got is what is built in to my Mac. The whole podcast fiction thing is really fascinating to me. Audiobook-style short fiction that people listen to on their ipods is surprisingly popular.

I like this idea, and I might try and set something up. I enjoy reading aloud, and it might be a fun way to showcase a story every month. No promises, though.

When it comes to interviewing writers, how were the previous interviews set up? I'm not volunteering for that one.

Jeff Williams ran that series. Mostly we just picked someone we thought would be interesting, asked them if they'd consent, and then e-mailed them some questions. Based on the answers, Jeff might send some followup questions, and then he edited it all together. It was an interesting project, and not one that isn't worth repeating.

Once again, I'll volunteer to be the idea person/moderator for a lettercol-based flash fiction contest each month to help build community through parallel marketing. ::)

I think that's a fun idea. Another fun idea might be a "story seeds" forum area, where people can post, for instance, first lines, and let people run with them.

These are good ideas, and much more along the lines of what I think we should be worrying about. :)


Anyhow, just ideas.

Nate[/quote]

[doc]

I think there's shades of John F. Kennedy here. Ask Not what Aphelion can do for you... ask what you can do for Aphelion.

Yeah, that was obviously intentional. :)

There's a profound spectrum line of structure. At one far end are those guys who hang out, get an issue together, and hang out some more. Then they disband for a year. Then they reform. "Gee. It's March. Maybe I should issue my first issue, with a second in November". There are websites that do that and have a grand time.

Aphelion chose to be a step up: "Mostly monthly" issues. No one got sacked when an issue slipped, but we're not happy either. But the minute we embarked on a fairly determined monthly structure, we took the organizational risk of additional effort for cumulative additional gains. Once you do that, there's no returning to the UltraHobby levels above.

Sorry, can't agree here. We have not lost our Hobby status, and we're not going to, n o matter how much people want to push us away from it.

I had the great pleasure to meet playwright Jerome Lawrence (co-author of Inherit the Wind and The Night Thoreau Spent In Jail), while attending the International Thespian Society Festival in Muncie, Indiana in 1986. I will never forget the central thesis of his presentation to us:

"Never forget that the word amateur comes from the Latin word for "lover". So, even if you decide to become a professional actor, even if you decide to make a living at this, never give up your amateur status. Never stop loving what you do, and doing it because you love it."

That is very much the essence of what we're doing here. That's why we still put this thing out every month (or so). We do it because we love writing, we love encouraging new writers, and we love the community we've built here.

We gave up *nothing*. You can't take it away. :)

[kailhofer]

I like the idea of a separate Writing Tips folder. I'd even volunteer to post a topic each month about what makes a story, how to hook readers in 200 words, characterization, etc. Those things interest me, anyway, and are a prominent part of my reviews. It would be even cooler if such things could be hyped/linked from the index page.

Sounds like a great idea, and well within the scope of what we're doing. I'll set up a Writers Workshop folder on the lettercol and people can start posting stuff. (I've occasionally dropped links to interesting tips I've come across in the Administrivia folder, but it makes sense to separate it out.)

Thanks.

I did wonder, however, if something like that could be a place to host an audio story each month, and then link it back to here (and thus get around the bandwith limit). Maybe one new audio story/podcast each month, which is also one of the stories for that month, or something like that? Heck, I'd even volunteer to be a voice/reader, although all I've got is what is built in to my Mac. The whole podcast fiction thing is really fascinating to me. Audiobook-style short fiction that people listen to on their ipods is surprisingly popular.

I like this idea, and I might try and set something up. I enjoy reading aloud, and it might be a fun way to showcase a story every month. No promises, though.

I looked around this afternoon, and learned a lot about podcasts, including how to make one. If you can't host an mp3 on MySpace, you may be able to do it for free on ourmedia.org. For reference, I took an unpublished flash piece and recorded me reading it onto my mac. I used a free, multi-platform program called Audacity with a free mp3 encoder called LAME 3.97, and the built-in mic. The 1,000 word piece took originally 6 minutes for me to read, but I was able to edit out pauses and mistake bits to get it down to 5:17. Podcasts are recommended at 64 bit, so the final mp3 was 2.4 meg. A larger than flash piece may not be a good choice for audio, but I've only been doing this for 2 hours. There are bound to be other shortcuts that can whittle it down.

Plus I even managed to manipulate the vocal range so some of the characters sound like they were read by different people. Not too shabby, I thought, given how new I was to it. The final product is a hoot to listen to, although I'm a bit embarrassed how badly my accent shifted as it went.

Once again, I'll volunteer to be the idea person/moderator for a lettercol-based flash fiction contest each month to help build community through parallel marketing. ::)

I think that's a fun idea. Another fun idea might be a "story seeds" forum area, where people can post, for instance, first lines, and let people run with them.

Just so we all can agree on how it should be run.

In case anyone didn't see this under Gareth's Blind Collaboration thread, what I proposed was to post a challenge in the zine. Something like an alien with red socks and a stopwatch, or a zombie love story (no worse than pg-13). The challenge I gave myself for the story I recorded was: Write a holiday fantasy. Rated 'G'. 1000 words or less. In the story, use: a wig, mistletoe, and a giant.

Anyway, anyone who wanted in had 2 weeks to post their flash piece in the body of a message in the lettercol. After the 2 weeks, the topic would be locked, and a poll message would go up for another week for people to vote on their favorite. That winner was announced in the zine, along with the next challenge. I said I'd write a story for each issue as an exemplar. (Maybe the flash contest sample piece should be the audio story for each month. It could attract a new crowd to the zine, as well as to the lettercol. Maybe.)

There was an awful lot of disagreement when I suggested it. Some didn't want there to be a vote for a winner. Some only wanted it through the zine, and to run for 6 months. Others thought the whole contest should only last a week. Some thought it would take away from the people who would read the zine. Others disagreed. I thought it would be a good community builder, but it could very well take away from readers of the stories.

I'm happy to do it, and I think it would be fun, but I'd just like to see some consensus.

Nate

[doc]

I did wonder, however, if something like that could be a place to host an audio story each month, and then link it back to here (and thus get around the bandwith limit). Maybe one new audio story/podcast each month, which is also one of the stories for that month, or something like that? Heck, I'd even volunteer to be a voice/reader, although all I've got is what is built in to my Mac. The whole podcast fiction thing is really fascinating to me. Audiobook-style short fiction that people listen to on their ipods is surprisingly popular.

I like this idea, and I might try and set something up. I enjoy reading aloud, and it might be a fun way to showcase a story every month. No promises, though.

I looked around this afternoon, and learned a lot about podcasts, including how to make one. If you can't host an mp3 on MySpace, you may be able to do it for free on ourmedia.org. For reference, I took an unpublished flash piece and recorded me reading it onto my mac. I used a free, multi-platform program called Audacity with a free mp3 encoder called LAME 3.97, and the built-in mic. The 1,000 word piece took originally 6 minutes for me to read, but I was able to edit out pauses and mistake bits to get it down to 5:17. Podcasts are recommended at 64 bit, so the final mp3 was 2.4 meg. A larger than flash piece may not be a good choice for audio, but I've only been doing this for 2 hours. There are bound to be other shortcuts that can whittle it down.

I should note that I've been a recording engineer in the past. There's a LOT of tools for this sort of thing, and I have a few of them on my computer. :)

Just so we all can agree on how it should be run.

In case anyone didn't see this under Gareth's Blind Collaboration thread, what I proposed was to post a challenge in the zine. Something like an alien with red socks and a stopwatch, or a zombie love story (no worse than pg-13). The challenge I gave myself for the story I recorded was: Write a holiday fantasy. Rated 'G'. 1000 words or less. In the story, use: a wig, mistletoe, and a giant.

Anyway, anyone who wanted in had 2 weeks to post their flash piece in the body of a message in the lettercol. After the 2 weeks, the topic would be locked, and a poll message would go up for another week for people to vote on their favorite. That winner was announced in the zine, along with the next challenge. I said I'd write a story for each issue as an exemplar. (Maybe the flash contest sample piece should be the audio story for each month. It could attract a new crowd to the zine, as well as to the lettercol. Maybe.)

There was an awful lot of disagreement when I suggested it. Some didn't want there to be a vote for a winner. Some only wanted it through the zine, and to run for 6 months. Others thought the whole contest should only last a week. Some thought it would take away from the people who would read the zine. Others disagreed. I thought it would be a good community builder, but it could very well take away from readers of the stories.

I'm happy to do it, and I think it would be fun, but I'd just like to see some consensus.

Those are details we can work out. It might be fun to do a real short story contest like we used to do. The main thing that caused us to drop those was that they're *enormously* time consuming to judge -- espeically for the person who has to narrow the entries down to the top 6 or 8 for the rest of the editorial staff to judge.

[kailhofer]

I should note that I've been a recording engineer in the past. There's a LOT of tools for this sort of thing, and I have a few of them on my computer. :)

Well, perhaps you can start a podcast fiction help folder, too. I've listened a lot today to stories at http://escapepod.org. They clearly have better equipment than I do, but when you look at a podcast objectively, they're awfully amateur. Usually there's a voice over the top of some public-domain music clip, announcing the broadcast, maybe an editorial, then it shifts to a recording. The stories don't seem to use multiple voices, sound effects, or music. This sounds very in the range of what normal people can do, and at the same time, be surprisingly cutting edge.

In your bag of tricks, do you have a tool for just plain having the wrong voice for a story? My own voice, when I hear it played back to me through itunes, seems to have a natural optimism to it, which just doesn't match what it ought to be or what I usually write. I was reminded of Michael J. Fox in Homeward Bound, doing the voice for Chance the dog, only without the extra talent. That doesn't translate well to a drunken zombie hunter, serial killer artist, or mute rebel slave, which is the kind of stuff I've been writing lately. [grumble] It worked well for the holiday thing I tried yesterday, but today... nothing sounded good.

Those are details we can work out. It might be fun to do a real short story contest like we used to do. The main thing that caused us to drop those was that they're *enormously* time consuming to judge -- espeically for the person who has to narrow the entries down to the top 6 or 8 for the rest of the editorial staff to judge.

Well, that would be one nice thing about posting and voting in the lettercol--no one person narrows them down. It's reader's choice. (I realize someone will have to throw out spam and people who won't respect whatever a content rating is supposed to be. You can have R-rated entries if that month is G-rated. But I'm sure you know what I mean.)


This has nothing to do with anything that has been mentioned before, but if everything is on the table for discussion... Does anybody besides me think that the story blurbs are way too long? Nothing personal to anyone, and I'm not trying to single anyone out, but they don't seem to have the punch they should have. Maybe we should have a workshop on writing ad copy. For example, The gifts that make one a hero can surprise you. entices me more than Jack stood before the clan, waiting for the party to wind down. He was never going to hear the banjo anyway. This is an exaggeration, but I think shorter and more vague would be better. It might increase the number of stories read, too.

Again, that could just be me.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

...This has nothing to do with anything that has been mentioned before, but if everything is on the table for discussion... Does anybody besides me think that the story blurbs are way too long? Nothing personal to anyone, and I'm not trying to single anyone out, but they don't seem to have the punch they should have. Maybe we should have a workshop on writing ad copy. For example, The gifts that make one a hero can surprise you. entices me more than Jack stood before the clan, waiting for the party to wind down. He was never going to hear the banjo anyway. This is an exaggeration, but I think shorter and more vague would be better. It might increase the number of stories read, too.

Again, that could just be me.

Nate

Ah, you're just brooding about the original blurb for 'Another Sarah'. But you're right -- even I did a double-take when I saw how long some of this month's blurbs turned out to be. The question may be whether a blurb does its job, which (I think) is to create curiousity about the story (preferably without giving away the punch line, or whatever your Story Bible Official Term is for the Big Payoff), regardless of length. The opposite extreme would be the out-of-context quote (from a review or from the story itself), per Hollywood movie:

Blurb: "You'll never take me alive!"

Context: "'You'll never take me alive!' Boy, I love it when they say that in old gangster movies," Nerdly said.

Blurb: "This story is for those who ... crave ... heart-stopping suspense ..."

Context: "This story is for those who are overstimulated and crave some respite from the heart-stopping suspense of 'American Idol'."

I try to give some idea of the mood and situation in each story -- completely impractical with flash fiction, where most of those aspects have to be inferred by the reader, and difficult when the situation is complex. How would YOU set up (say) 'Girl Facing Village', oh Guru of Story and Publishing? (This means you, Nate ;))

Robert M.

[doc]

My general approach to a blurb is to ask myself the question: "What's the hook of this story in 20 words or less?"

Any longer than that isn't really useful.

[Robert_Moriyama]

My general approach to a blurb is to ask myself the question:  "What's the hook of this story in 20 words or less?"

Any longer than that isn't really useful.

20 WORDS??? I take more than that to clear my (metaphorical) throat! Hey, Nate -- wanna be a blurb writer? I know, that means you'd have to read all the stories (or at least skim them) in a great tearing hurry in order to come up with something pithy, but ...

Robert "It is better to be pithed off than pithed on" M.

[Robert_Moriyama]

You could ask the author to write their own blurb.  They know what they're trying to convey more than anyone.

A few of them DO supply their own blurbs, although they may be synopses intended for my benefit. I have yet to see one that really piques my interest (although apparently they may be better than the ones I come up with!).

Robert "'Beware the Blurb!' (sequel to the Steeb McKing classic, 'The Blurb')" M.

[kailhofer]

Ah, you're just brooding about the original blurb for 'Another Sarah'. But you're right -- even I did a double-take when I saw how long some of this month's blurbs turned out to be. The question may be whether a blurb does its job, which (I think) is to create curiousity about the story (preferably without giving away the punch line, or whatever your Story Bible Official Term is for the Big Payoff), regardless of length.

[snip]

I try to give some idea of the mood and situation in each story -- completely impractical with flash fiction, where most of those aspects have to be inferred by the reader, and difficult when the situation is complex. How would YOU set up (say) 'Girl Facing Village', oh Guru of Story and Publishing? (This means you, Nate ;))

...
20 WORDS??? I take more than that to clear my (metaphorical) throat! Hey, Nate -- wanna be a blurb writer? I know, that means you'd have to read all the stories (or at least skim them) in a great tearing hurry in order to come up with something pithy, but ...

Robert M.

I don't know. I haven't read it yet.

I'm not volunteering to be the blurb writer, not yet anyway, but I'm curious. I'm not looking to read all the stories, certainly not early. With how late they're posted, I don't know if someone even could. I wonder if you required the author to submit a 1 paragraph synopsis for the blurb writer, can a good blurb be written.

Lee, can you post such a synopsis? Are you reading this thread? I'd like to see if I could write a blurb for it that works without reading the whole story, or the existing blurb. I'll read it afterwards and post the blurb anyway. It would be an interesting experiment.

If it works, maybe an interested soul can volunteer, and then I can go back to my role as troll, exacting a heavy critique toll to cross Aphelion's monthly bridge, thereby inspiring writers to try harder. I always thought that was supposed to be my part of the big equation. And now posting about story craft. And maybe writing examples for a flash contest. And making a marketing plan, if GLP doesn't want to. And now maybe the blurbs, too??

Jeez. I know I'm the biggest complainer... but it seems like there are a lot of names on that editor list... and other people posting in this thread...

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

This month's blurbs (only seven -- two of the seven stories are pretty long, and editing / formatting time was running out) are SHORT. Well, short by my standards, anyway. We'll see if (a) they do the job of piquing interest in the stories and (b) are appropriate for the stories to which they are attached ...

Robert "I can blurb that story in ... 30 words, Rob" M.

[kailhofer]

This month's blurbs (only seven -- two of the seven stories are pretty long, and editing / formatting time was running out) are SHORT. Well, short by my standards, anyway. We'll see if (a) they do the job of piquing interest in the stories and (b) are appropriate for the stories to which they are attached ...

Robert "I can blurb that story in ... 30 words, Rob" M.

Lee didn't do the synopsis, so I read it anyway.


Anna just wanted to be left alone, and she was about to get her wish... whether she liked it or not. 21 Words. Too long.

The drawings in the cave meant something to her, and Anna was about to find out what. 17 words, but I don't like it.

A visit from an old friend can bring bad tidings, too. 11 words. Too vague.

Sometimes, people don't visit just to be friendly... 8 words. I like it better, but makes the friend sound like some killer. Still, I'd read it with that blurb.

Anna was judged good, but she judged the world bad. She was right. 13 words. Not terrible, but I'm not happy with it.

Anna wasn't the first to turn away from society, but she could be the last. 15 words. I guess I could live with that.


I'm out of practice. If I sleep on it, I could probably improve some of these. Still, what does anybody else think? Would these draw you in better than the blurb that was used? Nothing personal, Robert, I just wanted to see if this was a sentiment held by more than just me.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

Well, Rob Wynne was the one who set the 20-words limit as HIS target, so at the very least, you have one adherent in the brevity-is-the-soul-of-wit camp. Now there's an idea for an informal contest: Write That Blurb! Entrants are given a story and asked to 'bid' a blurb length based on (say) the first page or two. Then they get to read the whole story, and try to produce a blurb no longer than their bid. The results then are judged first on their attention-grabbing quotient -- do they entice the reader to investigate the story? -- then on accuracy / appropriateness -- do they accurately reflect at least some aspects or qualities of the story?

Note that the overall 'winner' would be (a) no longer than the number of words 'bid'; (b) a real attention-getter; and (c) at least somewhat related to the content / style of the story. (Extra points awarded for brevity, but brevity alone would not ensure a 'win'.)

(Variation: two challengers per story. Only the low bidder actually tries to write the blurb, then gets a pass / fail rating on the result.)

Gentlemen and ladies (or gentiles and ladies' men), start your word processors!

Robert M.

[kailhofer]

Well, Rob Wynne was the one who set the 20-words limit as HIS target, so at the very least, you have one adherent in the brevity-is-the-soul-of-wit camp. Now there's an idea for an informal contest: Write That Blurb! Entrants are given a story and asked to 'bid' a blurb length based on (say) the first page or two. Then they get to read the whole story, and try to produce a blurb no longer than their bid. The results then are judged first on their attention-grabbing quotient -- do they entice the reader to investigate the story? -- then on accuracy / appropriateness -- do they accurately reflect at least some aspects or qualities of the story?

Note that the overall 'winner' would be (a) no longer than the number of words 'bid'; (b) a real attention-getter; and (c) at least somewhat related to the content / style of the story. (Extra points awarded for brevity, but brevity alone would not ensure a 'win'.)

(Variation: two challengers per story. Only the low bidder actually tries to write the blurb, then gets a pass / fail rating on the result.)

I don't think you're spinning this right at all. A real contest would be great, especially if you could use it to kill more than one bird with the same stone, metaphorically speaking.

A contest is good marketing. Put it right on the index page & have Dan hype it in the editorial. Plus, you need blurbs, especially ones that people like and that you know work well with your audience.

Why not post a very short story and have people submit blurbs for it. Take the suggestions & poll them. Winners of the contest (2 or 3) receive the honor of writing Aphelion's blurbs! Regular contributor/editorial assistant looks great on a writing resume!

Imagine it. People could want to do your work for you, because it helps their own careers (or because they just enjoy the satisfaction of doing it). Or better yet, take 3 winners. Send them all short synopses to write blurbs from, and pick the one you think is best each month. Competition should ensue, giving better blurbs.

It's all in how you spin it.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

Also, Aunt Polly says ain't one boy in a thousand can [s]whitewash a fence[/s] write a good blurb. But if you'll trade me that there worthless ol' [s]jumping frog[/s] video iPod, I might let you try your hand ...

Robert "middle initials T for Tom, S for Sawyer" M.

[doc]

Yeah, I agree. So, this is the official announcement that the next issue will appear on April 1.

No foolin'.

(Seriously, we're going to try and hit the first of the month for the rest of the year, so this is the offical reset.)

[kailhofer]

So, has there been any more thought to the concept of audio stories/podcasts? I have to say that I think a podcast version of Aphelion would be just cool. I know there are enough musicians around here to make some into music, Dan already writes an editorial, and obviously there's loads of content to choose from. It should be easily publishable in a way that works with RSS feeds, and can be hosted for free if it goes in the right spot. Plus, a few people have expressed interest in reading.

Could be fun.


Also, any further debate on other interactive elements that could be done, like a monthly flash fiction contest? (Not that it has to be that, I'm just hoping for more things that connect the lettercol and the zine.)

Nate

[doc]

Lots of things are being discussed and developed.

They're not, however, being discussed and developed here. This is not the place for them.

Things take time. We only put out one issue a month. Patience, grasshopper. :)

[Robert_Moriyama]

...We only put out one issue a month. Patience, grasshopper. :)

Please note that "... a month ..." should not be construed as meaning "... each month ...", since I presume we will still put out a humonginormous December issue and take January off. However, we certainly intend to put out one issue for each of the 12 months EXCLUDING January, beginning with the [s]March[/s]April issue, online sometime tomorrow (April 1st, Eastern Time, North America, Planet Earth, Sol System, etc.).

Of course, I intend to win the Nobel Prize for literature, but that's just ME. The collective will of the Editorial [s]Mafia[/s]Group Mind is much stronger than the will of a single human mind, however spectacular that mind may be*.

(* The radiance of that mind's modesty alone is more than many can bear without projectile vomiting...)

Robert M.

[kailhofer]

Lots of things are being discussed and developed.

They're not, however, being discussed and developed here. This is not the place for them.

Things take time. We only put out one issue a month. Patience, grasshopper. :)

I was only curious.

The last time anything was said about this was 3 weeks ago, and this subject interests me. Stepping on toes or anything like that was not intended.

Nate