Declining number of messages posted

[Robert_Moriyama]

There seems to be a disturbing trend in the volume of messages posted here ...<br><br>Apr 04   130<br>May 04 108<br>Jun 04   147<br>Jul 04   137<br>Aug 04   304<br>Sep 04   148<br>Oct 04   137<br>Nov 04   165<br>Dec 04   201<br>(no Jan 05 issue)<br>Feb 05    85<br>Mar 05  192<br>Apr 05   106<br>May 05  100<br>Jun 05    84<br>Jul 05 64<br><br>Aside from March, which had the 3rd best message count since the changeover to the yaBB lettercol, things have gone downhill -- since I became Short Stories Editor as of the Feb 05 edition.  (Uh oh... :-/)<br><br>Lately I have been commenting at least once on short stories -- usually in reply to someone else's comments -- even though the authors already know what I think, but even that hasn't helped the numbers much.<br><br>I realize that we have almost two weeks before the August Aphelion goes online (I think), but 64 comments on 8 stories, three or four novellas, half a dozen poems, and an editorial?  Geez -- has everybody gone on vacation?<br><br>???<br><br>Robert M.<br><br>

[Robert_Moriyama]

The official deadline for a new issue is the 7th of each month. However, reality has a way of rearing it's ugly head.  We're gradually slipping to a 10th of the month upload date. I don't like it, but there's nothing I can do about it.
Aphelion's staff know that our personal deadlines are the 25th of each month...

Dan

<br><br>Hmm. If that's the case, I'm waaaay behind. (Nobody ever tells me ANYTHING.)<br><br>Robert (putting the 'pro' in 'procrastination') M.

[kailhofer]

but what was up with aug o4? was unemployment especially acute that month? heh heh.
Lee

<br>I'm surprised you don't remember. A lot was going on that month, including an argument with a certain Mr. Owens. You were in it with me. He posted those "look at the hicks" (more or less) messages on other boards and I found myself practically burned in effigy by all those newcomers, some of whom stopped to comment on a few stories.<br><br>Plus, it was a heck of a big issue that month, featuring a host of local favorites, including, but not limited to:<br>David Alan Jones<br>DDH Lee<br>Ralph Benedetto<br>Jaimie Ellliot<br>Robert Moriyama<br>Jim Rudnick<br>Rob Starr<br>Dan Hollifield<br>Steven Utley<br><br>Oh, and I had a novella, a short, & a poem that month, too, and they brought in their fair share of posts. (Including the infamous Elizabeth Bear review, whose mauling of my story I won't soon forget--it taught me the rulebook I use when critiquing.)<br><br>With that much going on, how could it not have been busy?<br><br>Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

...so maybe we could start something that raises the hackles of folks on another forum?  

How about  "_________is a fink!"   (fill in the blank).   :o

Donald "The Instigator"  S.

<br><br>Or, to quote from de Camp and Pratt's 'Incomplete Enchanter' series, <br><br>"Yngvi is a louse!"<br><br>Robert "Keeping the Classics Alive" M.

[Robert_Moriyama]

are you guys talking about Yingwie Malmsteen?

i used to be a fan!

a fink? don't know if i wanna be that, volunteerism and all.

btw Rob, looks like your call to arms has worked. i say we'll be at at least 150 posts by aug 1st.

Lee

<br><br>Yes, but how many of them are weird digressions like this one (and yours, for that matter), and how many have anything to do with the STORIES? (I know, I never said I was going to be PICKY about it...)<br><br>As for Yngvi, I'm talking about Yngvi the prison guard (or maybe prisoner) in the Finnish mythology tale from the 'Incomplete Enchanter' stories. Some poor soul who'd been locked up for too long did nothing but shout 'Yngvi is a louse!' at random intervals.<br><br>Sum peeple got no kulchur atall.<br><br>Robert M.

[kailhofer]

Been out of town for a few days, and there seems to be all kind of posts.<br><br>Maybe it's me. :-)<br><br>As far as celebs go, I earned money for college by working at forums and concerts, as stage crew (I usually ran a spotlight) so I've seen a few up close. The most interesting was Dizzy Gillespie, (shortly before he died) who thanked us all for all the hard work & said 'have anything you want' from the Green Room. Then 5 minutes later Dizzy wanted a Pepsi & I drank the last one. His manager blew a gasket & wanted me fired.<br><br>Show biz people. Humph.<br><br>The most interesting individual speaker was Gen. William Westmoreland, who wouldn't stand on stage when someone asked him a question. He had to have a mike with enough cord so he could walk over and look whomever was asking the question in the eye, and then answered him face to face. We didn't know he was going to do that, so we had to really scramble to keep him lighted. <br><br>Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

replied to this one and said how much Westmoreland was misunderstood and now it's too late coz he's gone. what gives? that posting just vanished. maybe the vietcong blocked me in preparation for taking over Taco Bell or something.

Lee

<br>Well, according to the script of 'Demolition Man' (one of Stallone's contributions to the Bad SF Movie genre), Taco Bell will be the only surviving restaurant chain after the Franchise Wars, so it would be a high-value target ...<br><br>Robert 'Too Many Movies' M.

[Robert_Moriyama]

...and Rob, that wasn't really in the movie, now was it?

Lee

<br><br>The Taco Bell thing? Shucks and wah-zoo, it certainly was. If you can stand it, you should be able to rent a copy somewhere. It has a non-anorexic-looking Sandra Bullock in it, and Wesley Snipes as the psychotic supervillain that forces the future lollicops (i.e., police, but utterly ineffectual) to thaw out rogue supercop, John Spartan (Stallone) 'cause they can't deal with someone who's actually -- gulp -- capable of violence.<br><br>Robert M.

[Robert_Moriyama]

Credit? Sorry, Time Travelers Strictly Cash.<br><br>And saying that a movie was like 'Judge Dredd' is hardly a recommendation. Rob Schneider is not nearly as cute as Sandra Bullock, for one thing; for another, it was a little spooky how much it looked like Armand Assante and Sly Stallone had had their noses and jawlines fixed by the same guy.<br><br>As for the volume of posts, Dan Hollifield has started things off in just about every thread, and I've made my usual snarky replies on behalf of the authors in several cases.  Once Dan's vacation is over, things will go back to (sub)normal ... but then the high school and university crowd will be back shortly thereafter, so that may help.<br><br>Robert M.

[kailhofer]

And saying that a movie was like 'Judge Dredd' is hardly a recommendation. Rob Schneider is not nearly as cute as Sandra Bullock, for one thing; for another, it was a little spooky how much it looked like Armand Assante and Sly Stallone had had their noses and jawlines fixed by the same guy.

<br>Ah, but Rob Schneider was already in both, as the criminal sidekick in one and a police dispatcher in the other. Apples to apples compares Sandra Bollock and Diane Lane. <br><br>I rather liked Demolition Man. Judge Dredd, on the other hand... well, at least the big robot was cool.<br><br>Nate

[kailhofer]

Yesssss... But... How do I keep Kate from selling off clones of me on e-bay? She's probably figuring out how to work the party into a story even as we sit here and BS. And you read what she said about me in the party threads. I figure she'd be making several grand a pop for each one of those clones you ordered that she can descretely "relocate" to the highest bidders. I bet she's on the phone right now "Have I got a collector's item for you..."
ROTFLMAO!

<br>You can see it now:<br><br>"He's high miles, but you can have him for a song! All major credit cards accepted. No refunds." :)<br><br>Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

kinda think both movies represent a by-gone era. at least they actually made sf movies back then, whereas today it's like one or two a year, and they're barely straight science fiction anyway. i mean what's available right now? ok, WOTW was a major release, but beyond that, what? land of the dead and stealth? hand me the puke bag.

Rob Schnieder (spl?) was always a prominent figure in SF. so don't diss em, please, Rob. haha your namesake. remember 2010? Blue Thunder? hihihi. yeah, not exactly milestones, but still, he has that distressed but heroic look so needed in sci fi characters of a classical disposition.

besides, the movies mentioned above were all really conceived in the 70's, and i miss that decade.

Lee

<br><br>That was Roy ('Jaws', 'Jaws 2') Scheider in '2010'. As for current releases, you're forgetting 'The Island' (which is relatively original, even if some have noted major plot -- er, cloning from a no-budget movie of 15 or 20 years ago called 'The Clonus Horror', aka 'Parts: The Clonus Horror').<br><br>Robert M.

[Robert_Moriyama]

... I finally added a 'Be sure to visit the lettercol' blurb (with link) to the automatic signature file for my Aphelion Short Story Editor e-mail account. Maybe that will bring a few more authors into the mix (to defend their work and take revenge on other authors who dis them. Yo, they come bust a cap in Nate's extreme lower back, dude.

Robert M.

[kailhofer]

... I finally added a 'Be sure to visit the lettercol' blurb (with link) to the automatic signature file for my Aphelion Short Story Editor e-mail account. Maybe that will bring a few more authors into the mix (to defend their work and take revenge on other authors who dis them. Yo, they come bust a cap in Nate's extreme lower back, dude.

Robert M.

Once again, a call to violence against me... Sounds like somebody is carrying a lot of unresolved anger.

C'mon, Robert. Do you need a hug? ;D


Actually, it's been months since I worked over anyone's story (apart from a Nightwatch, that is). I'm working even more hours now and the kids are old enough to be in so darn many things that take up evenings and weekends... Lately, I'm lucky to read two or three stories an issue, let alone comment on them.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

... I finally added a 'Be sure to visit the lettercol' blurb (with link) to the automatic signature file for my Aphelion Short Story Editor e-mail account. Maybe that will bring a few more authors into the mix (to defend their work and take revenge on other authors who dis them. Yo, they come bust a cap in Nate's extreme lower back, dude.

Robert M.

Once again, a call to violence against me... Sounds like somebody is carrying a lot of unresolved anger...

Nate

And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Hey, wasn't calling for violence against your Nateness. Just saying that some nasty critiques that DEMAND a response from the author would help bring those posting counts up. C'mon -- take one for the team, Mr. K ...

8-)

Robert "Bring it on! (If you need me, I'll be in a bunker in an Undisclosed Location)" M.

[kailhofer]

And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Hey, wasn't calling for violence against your Nateness. Just saying that some nasty critiques that DEMAND a response from the author would help bring those posting counts up. C'mon -- take one for the team, Mr. K ...

8-)

Robert "Bring it on! (If you need me, I'll be in a bunker in an Undisclosed Location)" M.

Please. How often does an author refute one of my critiques? I'm not saying I'm like a voice from the burning bush or anything, but I am thorough in what I crit, and a hard-hitting review isn't an easy thing to answer when you're the author that was just told his or her baby is ugly (but in a nice way).

In truth, every great once in a while a useful discussion breaks out, but usually, most of the responses are third-party and seem to be an awful lot about how I couldn't possibly be right. Explain to me why I need that, again?

Me vs. the entire universe isn't a whole lot of fun for me. At least if I got the impression once in a while that people thought it was helpful, that would mean a lot.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

i don't recall ever refuting you Nate. your five-senses comments have stuck with me over the years and now i can't read anything without counting them!

Lee

If you use your fingers to count, that's one (if you count the kinesthetic sense of body position). If you LOOK at your fingers while you count, that's two. If you touch your fingertips to your thumb as you count, that's three (since touch and positional sense are not the same thing). If you taste (lick) your fingers as you go, that's four (a bit of a stretch). If you use your wet fingers to give yourself a Wet Willy everytime you count, that's five. If you sniff each finger after it is used to administer a Wet Willy, that's SIX! (Of course that means that if you have a premonition that you are going to do all the above, you're using ... The Seventh Sense.)

Robert 'NonSense!' M.

[Robert_Moriyama]

ah yeah...well what about sensing you're lost for words?

Lee

Or wishing I'd GET lost, forwards? :P

Robert M.

[Robert_Moriyama]

Now then, Rob, no need to take it personal.  Persons with crystalline addresses, and all that...  ;D.

A link to the lettercol in each story file would not be a bad idea, though.  I do it in all of the poetry - for what good it does.

There IS a link to the lettercol at the end of each short story file. It's even the correct link, as opposed to the one that had to be retired after it was hacked. If only we had people actually reading the stories (besides me, that is) ...

And anyway, I've never owned a crystalline dress. It would be kinda noisy, wouldn't it?

Robert M.

[kailhofer]

Thanks, Lee.


Bringing things back to the listed point of this thread, the decline in postings, I think it might be good to point out the obvious to everyone:
If you want to see more discussion, post more messages. Nothing starts up a conversation like people already talking.


That being said, over the past year or two, Aphelion has kept it's head in the sand every time an improvement was suggested that could draw new people. To illustrate, here's an exchange I just made up:

Hey, posts are down. Should someone post messages on other boards to draw people here?
No... Things will get better.

Hey, most of the awards don't link to places that exist anymore. Should we nominate Aphelion for contests so it gets publicity?
No... Things will get better.

Hey, almost all the "reciprocal" links listed aren't reciprocal. Should someone contact other magazines to make it easier for people to find us?
No... Things will get better.

Hey, posts are still down. I know someone with a lot of experience in circulation. Should I ask him for some suggestions?
No... Things will get better.

Hey, posts are still down. How about we do writing challenges to draw some new blood and revitalize the board?
Can I get back to you?

Hey, maybe if the magazine came out on any kind of regular schedule, like maybe more than quarterly, it would help keep discussion moving. Can that be done?

Hello? Hello?


Sorry to sound like a jerk, but what does anyone expect? Why were there 36 guests on at once on Nov. 8th? I'm sure it was to see if there was anything about the next issue yet. Readers are patient, but only to a certain point. They want to be loyal, but Jeez, meet them halfway. If things are going to be late, give explanations why or give out new dates.

We love Aphelion. I'll nominate Dan for sainthood for paying the bills for all this while, and I hope it goes on for another ten years. The Lettercol has its own magic, and no one wants that community to end. I know I don't. However, I think it's obvious something is not working in either the magazine or the lettercol, and without some resolution, I honestly can't see things surviving much longer.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

...Hey, maybe if the magazine came out on any kind of regular schedule, like maybe more than quarterly, it would help keep discussion moving. Can that be done?

Sorry to sound like a jerk, but what does anyone expect? Why were there 36 guests on at once on Nov. 8th? I'm sure it was to see if there was anything about the next issue yet. Readers are patient, but only to a certain point. They want to be loyal, but Jeez, meet them halfway. If things are going to be late, give explanations why or give out new dates...

Nate

...
Actually, it's been months since I worked over anyone's story (apart from a Nightwatch, that is). I'm working even more hours now and the kids are old enough to be in so darn many things that take up evenings and weekends... Lately, I'm lucky to read two or three stories an issue, let alone comment on them.

Nate

So, let's see:

• the spotty schedule is to blame for low posting volumes.
• But READERS having busy lives is an excuse for them to not post as much.

Oddly enough, the editorial staff have busy lives, too, and for every five minutes required to read something on the website, they may have spent hours reading stuff that DIDN'T make the cut, editing, formatting, etc. Now, Nate could volunteer to help keep the zine closer to its "if you believe that..." schedule, but he's too busy.

It is quite true that we should modify the 'next issue' blurb -- it was usually off by a week even when Carey was Short Story editor, and it has been worse since I took on the job (not always my fault, at least not entirely...). But the last 12 months or so have seen an unusual number of highly-distracting events (weddings, computer meltdowns, moves, family illnesses, factory meltdowns), which shaved days off the time available for the editorial staff to read, edit, format, etc. And once a given issue was delayed, the starting post for the race to the next issue slipped, and anyway, it wasn't fair to the authors to have their work online for substantially less than a month, reducing the likelihood that our busy readers will get around to reading their work, so we didn't WANT to have less than 3 weeks between updates ... (Hence the August/September issue.)

We could try having a subscriber notification thingy (I think Aphelion DID have one, once upon a time), but spam filters and firewalls and such would make it unreliable for many readers. Assuming that there ARE many readers -- it's so hard to tell. Hello? Hello? Is anyone out there?

[kailhofer]

Oddly enough, the editorial staff have busy lives, too, and for every five minutes required to read something on the website, they may have spent hours reading stuff that DIDN'T make the cut, editing, formatting, etc. Now, Nate could volunteer to help keep the zine closer to its "if you believe that..." schedule, but he's too busy.

True. I have never volunteered to help get an issue out. So in that respect, guilty as charged.

My wife has put her foot down and made it very plain to me that if I wish to remain happily married, I can't spend all my time typing, away from my family, helping to further the career of others. Writing my own stories or helping my own career is different, because that will add one day to the bottom line of our family unit. She outranks all of you, and I think she was right. My own children are more important than any of you, or me.

Instead, I proposed many of those items myself, including getting links posted on other sites. Further, I volunteered to make reader surveys (because I have experience with that) to help gauge what readers want.

I volunteered to create writing challenges each month. Still no answer on that yet.

We could try having a subscriber notification thingy (I think Aphelion DID have one, once upon a time), but spam filters and firewalls and such would make it unreliable for many readers. Assuming that there ARE many readers -- it's so hard to tell. Hello? Hello? Is anyone out there?

I've asked a half dozen times for some kind of counter or hit stats to be available for stories so that we could tell what's being read. Not only because I'd like to know how many of my own were read, but mostly because I know that as a former Circulation & Marketing Manager in real life, that kind of information is vital to any publication. Anything done to increase readership without good data is a guess, and likely to fail utterly.

So, I think I have tried to help every way I can, a number of times.

Also, I think I should add that Robert's stories are always up at least a week, sometimes a month, ahead of everyone else's. I don't think he's the source of the problem in any way.

Nate