The Mischievous Troll by Mark Edgemon

[kailhofer]

I started out being really angry and incensed over the taunting and ill intent of the person performing the acts in the flash challenges and forum posts. But the more I think about the position Nate took and his philosophy about the person in question, the more I see he was right from the beginning.

[snip]

And I truly pity him. I really do.

Mark

And pity should be what he or she hates the most. That's ironic, since what a troll does makes them pitied.

A troll, even though a villain, is a tragic figure. His existence is sad, unfulfilled, and no amount of attention fills that need. Even if they succeed in causing disruption, it won't really make them happy in the long run. Realizing that (and practicing some advanced characterization) was the whole point of the troll challenge.

[Robert_Moriyama]

For example, the first image I had of Al Majius was of an unimpressive, middle-aged guy trying to impress his wife by conjuring a surf-and-turf dinner. I suppose that established a sketch of the character -- he later becomes impressive in terms of his powers, but is otherwise a more physically-fit version of this initial persona, still unsure of himself even when he is planning to face Morgenstern. (The "plot" of that first story -- the reanimated corpse that won't go away -- came from somewhere in the ether (perhaps delivered by the Ether Bunny?).)

One of my only printed stories was an early entry in the Toronto Star contest (which came in in the top 60-something out of 3000 or so entries), "Firewalker". That one started with the image of a man in futuristic armor walking into a burning building...

RM

[kailhofer]

I usually start by thinking, 'Now, what would be better than something Robert would think up?"

Just kidding.

Lately, I start by thinking up a character flaw. It's really our shortcomings in life that define who we start as, and then drive to overcome the flaw (or failure to) defines who we become. Perfect heroes are uninteresting to an audience, IMHO.

Then, I try to think what kind of situation a character like that would be in the middle of. It's hardly a foolproof way, but it's what I'm doing now.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

Where can I get a copy of the Al Majius series and your story "Firewalker"? I'd like to add printed copies of those stories to my "get me through the monotonous waiting for my software to get through it's processes" workday.

And thank you,

Mark

Hmm. Buttering up the Short Story editor, eh? My incredible psychic powers tell me that I will be seeing more submissions soon, from someone with the initials M. E....

http://www.pathcom.com/~bmoriyam/Materia%20Magica.htm

provides synopses of the earlier Al Majius stories, and links to the stories it covers. (You may need to change the "www2" to "www" (or vice versa) in some of the links.) I will update the page to include the rest of the series one of these days...

I can't recall if "Firewalker" is available online anywhere...

http://www.spectravaganza.com/2005/5-win-05.html takes you to "Night Train", a rewrite of a story I wrote back in 1978 or '79 after a train I was on got stuck in snow in the middle of nowhere. This is a good example of a story that grew out of an image, or more precisely from the feeling of utter quiet and isolation during the time the train was stopped with snow swirling down and no sign of civilization in sight outside the windows.

RM

[kailhofer]

http://www.spectravaganza.com/2005/5-win-05.html takes you to "Night Train", a rewrite of a story I wrote back in 1978 or '79 after a train I was on got stuck in snow in the middle of nowhere. This is a good example of a story that grew out of an image, or more precisely from the feeling of utter quiet and isolation during the time the train was stopped with snow swirling down and no sign of civilization in sight outside the windows.

RM

Unless you've really photoshopped your normal portrait here, they've messed your picture up at that link.

It's funny, though, your reaction to the quiet and the snow. Feeling that still silence, with the world slowly being erased by white, is one of my favorite things. I love those 'just you and icy nature' moments. I love the stillness, where you don't hear people moving about, cars roaring. It makes the world seem more magical, which is kind of similar to your "crazy" hero in your story.

Of course, winter here lasts one hell of a long time...

[kailhofer]

"TEN" stories in a single concept story series with others yet to be posted. Wow, why is this not a book?

Mark

Market risk.

Any collection of short stories tends to be disjointed, even if meant to be read in series, and that puts off editors and agents unless the author is already famous. They have no reasonably guaranteed ROI.

Nothing against Robert. He's got some of the snappiest dialog I've ever read, but as is, I really couldn't see anybody publishing it. And I'm not saying I'm better, since no one was interested in my novel, either. It was probably too disjointed, too.

Now, if Al Majius could be rewritten as one work with the shorts as a 'suggested framework' only, giving more depth to characters and a more unified plot, I say Robert could really have something.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

When the first story was written, I wasn't planning to revisit the characters so many times. Hence the first story doesn't include Morgenstern, who turns out to be the linchpin for the overarching plot. Even after the "How Do You Solve A Problem Like The Morningstar?" theme was established, some stories were focused on Al trying to make a living (and learning new spells), e.g., "A Matter of Taste" and "Matters of State".

I suspect that if I try to pull the material together into a coherent novel, I will rewrite the whole thing, dropping some stories and adding new material as well as editing the references intended to remind readers of the situation. Unless, of course, I can find a publisher who would like to run them more or less "as is" as a chapbook... Yo! Publishing dudes! Any takers?

[kailhofer]

What you are saying is true, but editing should not be really that difficult or time consuming for an editor and someone already highly familiar with the material.

Mark

Editing & rewriting is really that difficult for any writer or editor. It is a hugely time-consuming task, even for pros.

Many say that after everything is written and rewriting starts is when the real process of writing begins.

You might want to try an experiment to understand what I mean: Write your next flash contest piece, then completely rewrite it with as few as possible of the same words. Keep the meaning, but not the words.

Chances are, the 2nd version will be much harder to write, but also be much better to read.

Editors and agents are looking for the much better version.

Nate

[kailhofer]

Damn, a writer has to rewrite something even after it was originally written. Who made up this tortuous, maniacal death (I said with only have a grin, the other half fading with the realization that what he had said was oh so true)?

But why would I want to change all of the words if most of the words worked the first time. Does the perfecting of the manuscript require you to think of better word crafting even though the meaning and heart of the original piece is fully conveyed?

And I appreciate your thoughtful posting so far on this subject!

Mark

Unemployment gives one a lot of time to hang around and join in on conversations. My next interview isn't scheduled until Friday. If only there were a new issue to read...

For the experiment, I would change them all. The point of the exercise is that when you have to say the same thing in a different way, you usually tell it in a better way, a way with more meaning to the reader. You knew what you meant as you wrote it, so you assume the casual reader will understand the meaning with those words too, but this is often not the case. Also, the 2nd time through you will probably be able to put a better spin on the words and convey little nuances that didn't come through the first time. Wordsmithing is a big deal to me.

Eventually, you can self-edit to some degree as you're drafting the first time, and that cuts down some of the redo process, but still not all. I rewrote the above paragraph 3 times, and I'm still not completely happy with it.

[Robert_Moriyama]

...I don't think our publisher and our editors want to cross the line into anything that smacks of profit-making...
Hero

That may be true of Dan in particular, but even he probably wouldn't mind breaking even! Now, if some enterprising agent or publisher were to make Dan an offer to publish "The Best of Aphelion Webzine" (and I don't mean a vanity publisher), he might consider it. He just wants to uphold the "we don't ask for money and we don't offer money" principle for the webzine itself (hence no ads, no fundraising campaigns).

Publishing an anthology would require negotiating with each author separately, since initial publication was based on a "first electronic rights" implied agreement. Again, most Aphelion authors (even those who have semi-pro and pro sales on their resumes) would probably agree to participate for a largely-symbolic share of royalties... (Exceptions: Jeani Rector and Robert Starr, both of whom have books out that include material that appeared in Aphelion; their contracts with the print publishers might not allow reprinting in hard-copy form.)

[kailhofer]

Holy crap, leave the computer for the evening because your eyes are bugging out and a huge discussion breaks out.

Would everyone love to see their name on something printed? Sure.

But, and this is the big thing with self publishing and POD, how do you make sure that you don't just wind up with a big pile of books or that no one will order?

Our names by themselves won't get anybody to buy a book. Our names together won't get anybody to buy a book because no one outside the Aphelion readership ever sees them. Obviously, we're all hoping that the Aphelion name might get someone to buy a book, and it seems in a round about way trying to sound out Dan to see if it might be okay to try to use his property (the name) and see if it would.

I can't help thinking about something I read the other say in a blog about the most difficult things about being a writer. The blog was here, but one of the responses caught my eye. It's here. Would we wind up like those guys with a bunch of books in the trunk? Would we go through all this and still no one buys the book?

Rob Starr, who used to be a regular here, published two short story collections (by a real small press publisher, Stone Garden, not POD). I've talked to him a couple of times about it (after all, Dan wrote the forward and GLP and I put blurbs on the back cover), and he said even with the publisher's storefront and Amazon, sales were always pretty lousy.

And, even though it was a real press and not a do-it-yourself, the layout and formatting was pretty poor. The table in Dan's forward was messed up, extra deep indents for all paragraphs throughout the book, etc. As a former typesetter and prepress supervisor, that really bugged me.

The books by both the Gareths didn't seem to do that well, and GLP is a marketing wiz.

And then, there's the deep-down worry: what if, by some miracle the stars align properly and a wandering publisher or agent actually sees our stuff and wants to get it published but now can't get it because we've used up the first printed rights? Would such a project shoot ourselves in the foot later?

Don't get me wrong, there are nearly 200,000 words worth of Flash stories in the Index, and I'd love to see them in a real, live bookstore. But how, and how to make it work? That's the $100,000 question.

Nate

[kailhofer]

You've missed the point of print-on-demand. Print-on-demand means a copy is only printed when a copy is ordered. There is no big pile of books in your basement unless you order a bunch to keep in your basement. But they can be ordered one at a time from the printer as they are purchased.

No, I don't think I did. The second part of that was about a lack of orders from POD.

I would guess that the main purchasers would be Aphelionites. The books can be distributed via Amazon, but I doubt many people other than those published in Aphelion would want them. But why isn't that enough?

Why? Because ever since I was 13 I've wanted to go into a bookstore and see my name on the spine of a book (for sale there, not just that I dropped). I hardly think I'm alone in that desire.

Obviously, we're all hoping that the Aphelion name might get someone to buy a book, and it seems in a round about way trying to sound out Dan to see if it might be okay to try to use his property (the name) and see if it would.

I'm not sure what you mean here. The only person using Dan's property would be Dan. I'll let you clarify before I get bent out of shape.

Dan as publisher owns the Aphelion name. It's his publication, even though it's all free. My point was that the main point of attraction to a general public would be a recognition of the Aphelion name and that it's a spot for great fiction. That would be the main market draw/tool.

Rob Starr, who used to be a regular here, published two short story collections (by a real small press publisher, Stone Garden, not POD).

From stonegardenbooks.com:

Are you a self publishing company?

Answer:

NO. We are a small press who uses Print-On-Demand technology and Just-In-Time business models. This is NOT the same as self publication. We do not publish just anyone, and our books go through rigorous screening and editing prior to publication. If you believe we are Publishing-On-Demand, please continue on to LuLu.com or CafePress (or Publish America), and do not send your manuscript to us.


Question:
How many people work at StoneGarden.net Publishing?

Answer:

StoneGarden is a sole proprietorship based in California. There is only one person officially on the payroll.

I misunderstood what StoneGarden was then.

So one person, acting as editor, takes submissions, picks manuscripts they like and then publishes them via print-on-demand. They have distribution through Amazon, which is available through services like Lulu. So what's the real difference here Nate between Stone Garden and, say, a group of Aphelion editors doing the same thing? Is this person at Stone Garden a real editor and you are not? Does he have more experience than you? More education?

You seem rather worked up like I'm violently opposed to this. I'm not. in fact, my head is still kind of rattling about Bottomdweller's statement. 4 million?!

I've talked to him a couple of times about it (after all, Dan wrote the forward and GLP and I put blurbs on the back cover), and he said even with the publisher's storefront and Amazon, sales were always pretty lousy.

And, even though it was a real press and not a do-it-yourself, the layout and formatting was pretty poor. The table in Dan's forward was messed up, extra deep indents for all paragraphs throughout the book, etc. As a former typesetter and prepress supervisor, that really bugged me.

So hang out your shingle and set up shop. Take submissions, you have editorial experience. Find a print-on-demand that works without a lot of setup fees and a distribution package and away you go. You, Nate, are a real [s]boy[/s] publisher. Just don't publish your own novel, that would make you a vanity press.

I suppose I could, albeit lacking a business model, plan, or even some idea of potential market.

The books by both the Gareths didn't seem to do that well, and GLP is a marketing wiz.

You don't make any money from being published on Aphelion... why do you even bother if sales are so important?

I bother because sales are important. The stated goal of Aphelion is to more or less be a place where writers hang out until they're good enough for people to pay them to write. That goes for editors, too. That, and we love fiction and the community of all those authors hanging about. Even you.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

...The editors have to be admired for the work they already do every month, which is also done for-the-love.

Hero

GULP! If that retro pay isn't coming, I may have to return the polo pony to the breeders

[kailhofer]

Based on your lawyer-like summary quoted above, are you suggesting that Nate takes on the challenge and acts as book publisher for this project? If so, he knows what he's doing for sure!

Mark

By a strange coincidence, I have been around printing/publishing all my life, and in college had a class all its own in book editing & publishing. The main project of it was to create a fictitious publishing house and "produce" a fictitious book, including galleys, layouts, covers, copyright registration forms, etc. Somewhere, I think I have all the notes and forms we made up...

I'm not volunteering, but I have to admit POD publisher as a side job sounds a whole lot less crazy to me than it did an hour ago. I'd have to think about the printer subcontractor angle, too, and how to make that work. There have been an awful lot of changes from what I learned. I suppose if I added editing/book doctoring to the list of services, I might even have a potential source of income for myself and with unemployment paying what it does... probably couldn't hurt, even for when some employer finally says yes.

Nate

[kailhofer]

By a strange coincidence, I have been around printing/publishing all my life, and in college had a class all its own in book editing & publishing. The main project of it was to create a fictitious publishing house and "produce" a fictitious book, including galleys, layouts, covers, copyright registration forms, etc. Somewhere, I think I have all the notes and forms we made up...

I'm not volunteering, but I have to admit POD publisher as a side job sounds a whole lot less crazy to me than it did an hour ago. I'd have to think about the printer subcontractor angle, too, and how to make that work. There have been an awful lot of changes from what I learned. I suppose if I added editing/book doctoring to the list of services, I might even have a potential source of income for myself and with unemployment paying what it does... probably couldn't hurt, even for when some employer finally says yes.

Nate

You know Nate, I mentioned to you some time back about you starting your own publishing company either by private message or e-mail. Maybe this is an opportunity awaiting you.

Whatever job you get will not likely take up the kind of time your last one did and you maybe able to use the additional time to start your own small publishing house with an Aphelion anthology being one of your first publishing jobs!

No one better suited and more self motivated. You have the ability to teach writing tech and you've had much editing experience through the flash challenges. You have a natural sense of what is good and what needs more work.

You have a winning mannor about you that doesn't squash a writer's spirit when giving a critique of their written work.

And most importantly, you are motivated in this direction.

I'm behind you if you choose to undertake this type of operation. I believe Davidson and others would help you as well.

Some interesting directions kicked up here!

Mark

Well, my head is spinning now. I've spent the rest of the afternoon trying to read up on POD. That's a headache right there, just trying to really figure them out since I grew up in the old-fashioned newspaper publishing world. Then, multi-tasking and mainly thinking out loud, I know that cross-media is the best way to get attention & readers. How then to differentiate? +E-books? (what the heck is Mobi?) +Audiobooks?? Besides Aphelion anthologies (assuming that happens), I'd need a marketable difference. I mean, a friendly relationship with Aphelion would be awesome (gotta love a steady stream of possible raw material), but what else is out there that would make it different, and look professional, too?

Of the 120 print shops (yes, 120) within an hour's drive of where I live, I'm sure I could find a few that print on demand. I know then I can spot check quality or do pickups if I have to.

What about promotion? I have no money. Even if I'm just aiming at making enough shared profit to go out to eat occasionally or buy Christmas presents, something is bound to cost. Bandwidth. Paypal accounts. Credit Card transactions. Shipping!! Can I work it so UPS or USPS shipping is done by the printer and not me? Since Aphelion shows no ads, if we made an Anthology, would the zine even promote it? And storefronts. How the heck do those even work? I'm no webmaven! How much can be done by only one person up in his den in what would probably be spare time, at least at first? How many people are needed?

AAAAUUUUGH! Brain overload!

[Robert_Moriyama]

I've managed to unchain myself from the factory for my normal 4 days off.
Dan

"... normal 4 days off." 4 days off? 4 DAYS...in a row? Is that 4 days off in a row every month?

Can I be you? Or better said, live vicariously through you?

Mark

He didn't mention the shift changes, the stretches with NO days off, or the occasional fun stuff like cleaning vats and tanks in extreme conditions... Dan's job ain't exactly like being a clerk behind a desk.

RM

[kailhofer]

Dude calm down. Breathe into a paper bag or something...

My wife already managed to calm me down. She very sweetly said, "Shouldn't you be finding a day job before you find a side job?"

Oh, yeah. I should. Forms to fill out, businesses to contact, providing for your family, that sort of thing. Rats.

Here's a recommendation: put together a manuscript. Nothing you think is worth publishing someplace else. Something about 100 pages. Maybe you have something you wrote in highschool that's not salvagable and would work for the experiment. Set up an account in Lulu and check it out. Then lay out your manuscript. For Lulu I think you can even use a word processing program for layout. You'll need to design a cover, but they even have a cover designer you can use. DON'T buy an ISBN number, DON'T buy any distribution packages, or any of the added services at Lulu, just use the basic no fee package. When you are finished you will have a book laid out on Lulu. There will be NO setup fees. You will have a storefront that is part of your Lulu account. You can keep it private so that only you and the people you send a link to can see and order from it. OR you can make it public and your book will be available for sale on Lulu to anyone who stumbles on it. You will have to pay to order a copy of the book for yourself, if you want one. This includes for the sake of proofing it. If you or anyone you tell orders it, they are actually ordering from Lulu. Lulu takes care of the printing and shipping. You decide how much you want to mark ($$) the book up. I don't remember if you need a Paypal account. I don't think you do. When you or anyone orders a copy it is credit card transaction from a Lulu shopping cart from your storefront.

Now what did this accomplish? Well, you've witnessed the relative ease and inexpensiveness of the modern vanity press. Now, you can take this knowledge and compare the other options you have. You'll have a baseline to go from that shouldn't cost you more than the cost of single book. You can compare the other print-on-demand services available online and locally. You can think about distribution options if you try to do it yourself.

It's a place to start. I've done it, myself. Come on Nate, you can too.

Hero

I'd have to say that's not a half-bad idea. Even looking for a job, I do still have some free time.

You know Nate, I mentioned to you some time back about you starting your own publishing company either by private message or e-mail. Maybe this is an opportunity awaiting you.

Whatever job you get will not likely take up the kind of time your last one did and you maybe able to use the additional time to start your own small publishing house with an Aphelion anthology being one of your first publishing jobs!

No one better suited and more self motivated. You have the ability to teach writing tech and you've had much editing experience through the flash challenges. You have a natural sense of what is good and what needs more work.

You have a winning mannor about you that doesn't squash a writer's spirit when giving a critique of their written work.

And most importantly, you are motivated in this direction.

I'm behind you if you choose to undertake this type of operation. I believe Davidson and others would help you as well.

If I do this, I'm sure I will need the continued help of everyone, if nothing else, to keep my head from exploding.

Any new enterprise comes with research requirements. It takes time to study up on new things or things new to us, but that is part of the process.

Whenever I'm doing something new that requires research, I set up a report on a word document with titles in bold and a number listing of pieces of data related to that subtopic. After initially writing down everything I know to date, I continue to research and adding data in numerical order under each subtopic heading as I discover it.

Then I make a worklist at the bottom of the report of all the things I need to do such as phone calls, letters, site researching, fulfilling of obligations etc., so I do not lose track of that information.

Breaking it down into segments. Another excellent suggestion.

Nate Kailhofer said:

How then to differentiate? +E-books? (what the heck is Mobi?) +Audiobooks?? Besides Aphelion anthologies (assuming that happens), I'd need a marketable difference. I mean, a friendly relationship with Aphelion would be awesome (gotta love a steady stream of possible raw material), but what else is out there that would make it different, and look professional, too?

The main difference is your heart and perspective. You're going to publish what is meaningful to you and what interests you and as a writer/editor/printer that is more insight than most publishers have going for them.

Also, I always had an idea of including an audio book cd in the inside cover of the book, so the reader/listener would have more than one way to enjoy the book. That would be a great value for the consumer who would be getting two products for the price of one.

Mark

Honestly, I'd love for anything produced to be a physical book, and ebook, and an audiobook. That would be pretty distinctive. But one has to start small, probably as ebook.

I had a promotion company back in the late 70's and early 80's before getting into production work and one thing that stands out from that experience is the enormous amount of free promotion available either from the media, businesses and one's hard work.

Once you have your product, something that you really believe in, you need to create a promotional plan which will include what you really want to achieve both emotionally and monetarily. You've got to set your first goal within reach, something that a moderate amount of work can achieve, so you can pave the path your on with a first success and remove all of the fears that come with a new enterprise.

Since the need for money is always a factor in a start up, you must laser beam focus your promotion to your target market, so you can turn over cash immediately. You need this more for encouragement than anything else.

You make a list of all of the free promotion opportunities available (there should be thousands, just list hundreds to begin with) and choose the options that will get your product to the most likely buyers, the ones who will buy on contact.

After that, expand your promotional plan to the next level so you are always setting goals that are just a little out of reach, but NEVER too far away so that you will increase step by step, which is easier on the nerves.

Mark

What kind of opportunities? I know in the newspaper biz, we were always inundated with people tying to news release their projects for promotion. 95% of them went in the round file. I know too, there would have to new age internet ideas out there, too.

I think you may have pointed Nate toward a life long dream of his.

No. Being a publisher was never my lifelong dream. Being a pro writer is. I have to remember that goal.

Mark wrote:

He would have a lot of support here.

Sure he would... and plenty of submissions too.

An anthology of Aphelion flash stories (with Dan's permission of course) might be more manageable than a general Aphelion anthology for a starting project. Nate is already familiar with all the submissions, and there are fewer permissions to get, and they're already organized.

Come on Nate, you have to keep up with those flurishing friends of Aphelion, the Friday Flash Fictioneers. They have a print anthology.



Hero

I know. I've seen it and [s]cursed them[/s], I mean, congratulated them.

Flash may well be the thing to try and get my feet wet. Whatever I do, I'm going to go a hell of a lot slower about it and try not to get so worked up. Research, research, research and carefully plan. My wife would never go along with anything less, anyway.

Nate

[Robert_Moriyama]

The idea that comes to my mind is 365 Flash Stories, one for each day of the year!

I've read some scuttle that "ultrasmall/vanity" publishing arguably makes it harder to publish anything else by Old School Parnassus (Big Media), but YaKnow - Big Media's havin' some growin' to do.

You DO realize that 300,000+ words (even assuming many of the stories are well below 1,000 words in length) would be approaching the lower end of Stephen King armstretcher range... 100,000 words would qualify as equivalent to a short novel. Factor in at least a little white space between stories, and the dead-tree count would be pretty significant (--> higher printing costs --> higher break-even price --> fewer sales, even to friends and family).

[kailhofer]

I honestly thought you wanted to own your own publishing company with all the hard work you put into the flash contests with so very little recognition. Well, as a publisher, you would certainly be in a position to publish, promote and market your own books. That is until your works caught the eye of a media conglomerate. Or you might want to continue to publish your own material and not settle for the usual 8 to 10% of the net profits for a first time published author.

Mark

But doing your own... that crosses a line into vanity press, and the prospect of that makes me uncomfortable. Wouldn't it be considered sad if I had to look back and say that no one would publish my writing, so I did it myself? Obviously if it worked and I became wildly successful things would be great, but if not, that would be just sad.

[kailhofer]

Nate,

I wouldn't give up on the writing dream. You are certainly talented and you also have a very workmanlike approach to honing your skill that will eventually pay off. But, small press publishing goes hand in hand with everything you do. It goes along with writing and editing and you have years of experience that would help too. It may not be your life long dream to be a publisher, but you have to admit it would be a sweet accomplishment. You can list it on your webpage after the ice sculpters.

Hero

Hopefully, I can learn enough about doing the sculptures this winter that they become good enough to justify having a page for them.

I'm not giving up on the publisher thing. I'm just going to go about it like I was the other day, overly excited. I need to be smarter about it and a lot more methodical. And I need a day job, first.

[kailhofer]

I've read some scuttle that "ultrasmall/vanity" publishing arguably makes it harder to publish anything else by Old School Parnassus (Big Media), but YaKnow - Big Media's havin' some growin' to do.

I've heard a lot of that. Enough to be concerned.

You DO realize that 300,000+ words (even assuming many of the stories are well below 1,000 words in length) would be approaching the lower end of Stephen King armstretcher range... 100,000 words would qualify as equivalent to a short novel. Factor in at least a little white space between stories, and the dead-tree count would be pretty significant (--> higher printing costs --> higher break-even price --> fewer sales, even to friends and family).

The figures I've seen were that first time books need to be around 80,000 words, which was usually about 325 paperback pages. Smaller than that, the consumer doesn't feel it's worth it for an unknown name. Bigger than that, it seems too thick to try. Flash pages are bound need to take more space like you mentioned. I think more than just a little white space, especially if we marketed it as a story a day/night kind of thing.

Then, there's the thing where do you group them into the challenges as they were given for structure reasons, or just select the "best"? What would honestly work better?

[kailhofer]

Nate,

Would you vote for your own story if you honestly thought it was the best, or would you wait and let others define you.

The greatest actors I know create resumes (putting their best foot forward) publicity shots and a long list of references before going to auditions (name dropping every step of the way), so they can push to directors why they are better for the job than the other folks waiting in the outer room (sometimes standing room only).

If they don't put themselves out there and develop the ability to really sell themselves, they don't work! I understand Walt Disney went bankrupt 13 times before hitting with a successful product. Abraham Lincoln lost over half a dozen elections, before he won the presidency.

I think you're talking about 2 separate things. Yes, I probably wait for people to define me and could use to toot my horn more. However, does a baseball player who can't get called up start his own team to get there himself? I suppose actors who aren't noticed could get together and make an independent film for the purposes of showing themselves off, but if I were that filmmaker, I'd want it to because there was a story that needed telling instead. (Although, I suppose I could view it as these are stories that need to be read, to be seen.)

You can't just lay your work out there and expect people to care enough to contact you for permission to publish it. You have to push and submit and after that...push, push, push!

You are a great storyteller that could teach writing if you had the college credits! You don't lack drive and determination from what I know of you, but you do need to change your thinking concerning feeling bad about tooting your own horn. Just toot in a way that shows confidence in your work and ability, that doesn't make you feel like a braggart. It takes time to develop that skill, but it can be done.

Mark

I'll admit it, I've been beat down. I have too many rejection slips over waaay too many years to feel that kind of confidence any more and haven't in a long time.

Incidentally, I met my wife in Composition for Teachers. We were both going to teach English (but neither of us actually do).

Nate